General BOTOX discussion board

[Tee]

Although known for its use to reduce wrinkles, BOTOX® is currently being trialled as new treatment for chronic migraine suffers in the NHS. If these trials are successful then further funding will be made available. - We will keep you informed.

[Tee]

http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/woman/health/health/3091476/How-Botox-can-help-cure-migraines.html

[Scarlett]

In the US, Botox has been approved as a treatment for migraines. Most insurance companies will pay for the Botox migraine treatments.

Personally, I am still not convinced I am not convinced that there won't be long term side effects, but I tend to be very sensitive to medications.

Hope this helps someone.

Scarlett

[Tee]

Hi there

Botox has only just been licensed here and funding on the NHS is only just getting sorted. Some private insurance companies also pay out for it - BUT that was when it was a few injections in the forehead. It is now given as 31 injections over the whole head, neck and shoulders, so not sure if they will include it now.

I am with you re the long term effects although this may be better than some of the other stuff we have been taking, since it does not enter the blood stream and it does not effect the chemicals in the brain.... only time will tell I guess.

[Sarah]

Yes, I have some concerns about long term effects, I must admit. I have had Botox myself in the past (over 5 years ago now), which I had done privately. My concern is for the health of the muscles, although I have no evidence to back it up - just a bad feeling!

Still, as you say, Tee, when weighed up against side effects of other medication, it's probably worth risking!

[Tee]

Sarah - when you had yours done - was it just a few injections - or was it the full 31?

Tee x

[Sarah]

I don't think it was 31, no. It was in the really early days of it being available as a treatment, through Dr Dowson. I think it might have been 2004. I suspect a lot has changed since those very early days.

The last time I had it done, he used up the vial by putting injections in my neck as well as all over my forehead.

When thinking of my lack of success, you have to bear in mind that no-one knew of my TMJ (jaw) issues at that point, so the full picture wasn't known by me or anyone else.

[Tee]

Oh thats true - I wonder if it would help you again - but this time injected into the jaw?????

But yes your right the new study showed you had to have it in your forehead, hair, neck and shoulders............... I have 12 days to go......

[Sarah]

Wow, that's a lot of Botox! It was about £250 a vial, back in the day!

[Tee]

oh my - not sure how much they use - but I have been told its £700 a go and you have to have it done twice - 12 weeks apart - Thank god for the NHS. I am sooooooooo praying that these trials work and it will be available for everyone...

[Sarah]

Yes, to be honest, had he suggested more than one vial at a session, I just wouldn't have been able to afford it (those were the days when I was actually working!)

[Tee]

Just had contact from a doctor in Manchester whose speciality is Botox for Migraine - here is his website and his information leaflet on Botox for Migraine. Obviously I do not know him personally but thought someone may find this useful.

Tee
______________________________________________

Website: http://www.theeyespecialist.co.uk/botox-treatment-cosmetic-and-medical/

Leaflet: BOTOX® TREATMENT FOR CHRONIC MIGRAINE

Treatment with botulinum toxin type A may help reduce the number of headache days you currently experience in connection with your
chronic migraine.

This leaflet will tell you more about chronic migraine, what the treatment is and how it may be able to help people like you who experience headaches and migraines.

http://www.theeyespecialist.co.uk/uploads/2011/03/chronic_migrane.pdf

[Tee]

The History of Botox
by Skincare-news.com team

Ever wonder how Botox evolved from toxin to the antidote for aging? In her interesting article for MSNBC, Diane Mapes charts the history of Botox from sausages to frozen faces.
Its ability to inject a wonderfully paralyzing and youthful appearance into scores of celebrity and non–celebrity faces was discovered 15 years ago, Mapes writes. But it wasn’t until five years ago that Botox received FDA approval. Take a trip back in time to see how Botox evolved to be the poison of all poisons and the prettiest one.

It all began with the sausage in the 1820’s when Dr. Justinus Kerner conducted case studies and experiments to learn what was behind the deaths of some Germans who had consumed sausage. Turns out it was food–borne botulism. Thanks to Dr. Kerner, we found out more about this poison, including its neurological symptoms—from droopy eyelids to respiratory failure—and using it therapeutically. Then in the 1890’s Dr. Emile Pierre van Ermengem from Belgium identified strains A through G of botulinum toxin, four of which—A, B, E and F—can make us humans sick.

http://www.skincare-news.com/b-3080-The_History_of_Botox.aspx

[Tee]

7 days and counting

[Tee]

As you will all know I have been in contact with a Dr Shevel re his theory of migraine being caused by the outer arteries of the brain (he is away for a few days, but has promised to send more info when he gets back)

He did however answer my question about why Botox has shown to work .... here is his response.....

______________________________________________________________________________________________________

The first thing I think that is important in migraine, is that there is a part of the brain that we call the ‘migraine generator’, that is more sensitive in migraine sufferers (why it is more sensitive is something we can go into later).

It is sensitive to incoming sensory impulses from the structures of the head and neck, but particularly from the muscles of the jaw and neck, and from the arteries in the scalp.

The more sensitive it is, the easier it fires off and initiates a migraine attack, and it doesn’t matter whether the impulses are coming from the arteries or the muscles.

So if paralyzing some muscles reduces the total number of incoming impulses, then you will be less likely to suffer migraine attacks – as long as the number of incoming impulses are reduced sufficiently. So no, you are not being naïve – it may help – reducing the impulses from the muscles may well reduce the sensitivity of the migraine generator below its threshold for firing. Having said that, when someone has been suffering for so long, the brain is very sensitive indeed, and usually one has to drastically reduce the incoming impulses.

Your consultant doesn’t know how it works because most headache specialists think the pain is from the brain.

[whitzendJane]

I totally agree with that..I am beginning to LOVE this man.
xxx

[Tee]

Sarah has finally finshed her Botox article - and here it is

Attachments

Botox pdf export.pdf Botox article that quotes my experience(483 Kb) Downloaded 378 times

[whitzendJane]

Good piece to raise awareness...nice one Tracey (40), Kent.

[Tee]

Well, I have had my second round of Botox and have to say this time was not as dramatic as the last lol - They did however give me something to calm me down (2 pills in fact lol)

The injections in the side of my head and shoulders where fine. The neck a bit more painful and sadly the ones in my forehead where ouch ouch ouch (Ok I did say it a bit stronger than that as they went it lol) The doctor was great, in fact all the staff where amazing, but he explained that I find the forehead ones more painful as that is where my main pain centre is - he thinks its not the actual injections but that when the needle goes in it kicks of the nerves and the pain.

I came home and slept sound for 14 hours and have woke a little sore but no pain It feels tight, but not the cardboard under skin feeling I had last time.

They are getting a mixed response, some have had no effect at all and some get great results - I was told that one man had gone from 30 days of pain per month to 3

They really are working hard to get this approved for everyone and I have all my fingers crossed they will succeed - we should know the outcome early next year.

I am down for the next lot in December / January - but I may have to go private for this round. But from the results I am getting it a small price to pay

[Dr Pav Khaira]

In my view, Botox has been found to have an effect for some people and can help to reduce the levels of pain of the migraine. Independent studies have shown that it may reduce pain by around 20%. It is worth noting however, that Botox is only licensed for chronic migraine and a full protocol usually involves around 31 injections. This is quite a lot of injections, but after three courses, results should soon be seen.

The downside of using Botox as a migraine treatment though, is that it has to be topped up every 3-4 months. In my opinion, Botox should be reserved for people who don’t respond to other migraine management techniques first.

The placement of Botox can cause short term problems similar to cosmetic Botox however there is no evidence to suggest there are any long term consequences of using Botox as a migraine treatment.

[Tee]

Thanks for that, I had my review today and we are going to give it another month - to play this round out fully - I am still at a reduced pain rate, so until that increases we will not know how long I get relief for............ if its 4 mths then that means I can have one less set of injections per year

I have had the 31 injections and its not fun..... but I do think it should be tried by all chronic migraines, as the side effects are limited - having gone through most of the meds it is nice to have treatment which does not come with weigh gain, shakes, tiredness or confusion - let alone the suicide thoughts I appreciate it costs - but it has to be cheaper than admitting people to hospital for DHE.

Also, I was told that in some people you can get an accumulative effect - which means over time less injections

[Dr Pav Khaira]

Hi Tee,

Yeah, the side effects of drugs are horrendous!! The Botox can have an accumulative effect, but if it doesn't work after 3 treatments it generally won't work. Although it's recommended the 31 injections are given each time, depending on the type of symptoms, sometimes I give more and sometimes I give less. Botox is never my go to treatment of choice.

You also forgot to mention how many people are admitted to A&E for migraines. It breaks my heart when patients get told they just have to put up with the pain

Mind if I ask how many courses of Botox you have had?

[Tee]

Not at all - I have had 2 rounds now. The first brought the pain and aura down alot and August was an amazing month. The second made me a worse before it got better.... which is not what we expected - but I am back to the August levels now, so we are going to let it run for a few more weeks to see what happens......

[Dr Pav Khaira]

May I ask, do you suffer from fatigue also? Has this been investigated and what were you told? I always find this aspect is over looked by my medical colleagues

It's surprising to me that when patients come in to see me, they often have VERY similar symptoms but rarely have had similar investigations. Migraines are one of the most poorly funded aspects of research in the medical field. I'm working on something at the moment though.

[Tee]

Oh boy yes - at the start of all this I had fatigue then about 2 years ago I started with chronic fatigue - it is the reason I can come off a few drugs eg Flunarazine and Eplim........ at one stage I was sleeping 16+ hours a day............. However, since I started the Botox and have come off the drugs and added magnesium and zinc I have found my energy levels are a lot better, ok I am not yet back to normal, but things are a lot better.

I was only ever told it was part of the symptoms of migraine and then a side effect of the drugs..........

It is one of my bug bears - that migraine is the number one neurological condition in the UK, effecting 1 in 7 and costing over 6 billion on economy lost, yet it has one of the least funded research programmes......

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